Seen on:
as known from New York Timesas known from USA Todayas known from yahoo!
VA

Muhammad Ali or Joe Louis: Who truly was the Greatest?

Who was the greatest?
Publish Date: 11/17/2023
Fact checked by: Simon Briffa

To me, when ranking the greatest heavyweights of all time, two men stand out, Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis. So the question is, who was the better fighter.?

I will try to tackle that argument today as we will compare the two greatest heavyweights of all time. 

Title winning performance

Joe Louis beat James Braddock to win the title; he was down early but came back to dominate and beat Braddock by eight-round stoppage. Although, to be fair, it was Max Schmeling who deserved the shot at Braddock, but because of Adolph Hitler and Nazi Germany, Schmeling was ignored in favor of Louis. Boxing people were afraid if Schmeling got the shot and beat Braddock, Hitler would freeze the title in Germany. None of that is Louis’s fault, though, to his credit, after winning the title, he fought a rematch with Schmeling and left no doubt who the heavyweight champion was – scoring a deadly first-round knockout that put Schmeling in the hospital.

On the other hand, Ali had to take on Sonny Liston, and Ali was a prohibitive 7-1 underdog, and most gave Ali no chance at winning the title. Instead, Ali shocked the world by dominating Liston and winning by a 7th round stoppage.

Joe Louis legendary Title-Reign

Louis defended his title 25 straight times over 13 years. He was simply unbeatable for over a decade. Of course, Louis did have hiccups along the way; a disputed decision win over tough Arturo Godoy, a tough decision win over Tommy Farr, Tony Galento dropped Louis, and a few others, which begs the question. If Louis could get dropped by guys like Galento, Buddy Baer, Walcott, and Schmeling, then guys with LOTS more power like Foreman, Tyson, and Frazier would be able to put him down and keep him down, wouldn’t they? Louis’s competition in the 30s and 40s was not great, to say the least, but that’s not his fault; you can only fight who is there to fight.

Louis is overrated in the sense that many heavyweights in history would have had 25 title defenses if they fought the same people Louis boxed during his title reign (and I’m not just talking about Ali). Also, his win over Schmeling is highly overrated because, number one, Schmeling himself was elevated for beating Louis. In fact, Schmeling was simply a pretty good fighter, nothing more. He would not be IMO classified as a great fighter. Schmeling was past his best, and Louis spotted a flaw in Schmeling and took advantage of it, just like Schmeling did two years before.

But Louis is not overrated in terms of his skill level, punching power, and intelligence. He was way ahead of his time and would easily clean out the division today. Now the big question that should be asked would be, is the competition Louis faced considered bad because he made them look bad? I think the competition was slightly better than the respect it is given. So Louis being as good as he was, why his competition gets rated low, but does anybody here think Louis winning the title over Braddock is as impressive as Ali winning it against Liston?

Even if the class of fighters is slightly underrated that Louis fought, it certainly doesn’t even come close to what Ali fought.

Muhammad Ali Title-Reigns

Ali’s first title reign was cut short because he did not want to fight in a war that should have never been fought in the first place. So Ali’s title reign started in February of 1964 and ended in March of 1967 after Ali had defended his title against Zora Folley. In all, in that short time, Ali defended his title 9-times, and only two of those fighters were able to last the distance with Ali(Chuvalo and Terrell).

To say Ali was dominant in those 9-title defenses would be a big-time understatement. Those title defenses were against Liston, Patterson, Chuvalo, Terrell, Cooper, Folley, Mildenberger, Williams, and Brian London. Cleveland Williams was past his prime; London and Mildenberger were tough but limited. But when you compare the competition, did Louis beat anybody as good as Liston? Patterson was a very talented fighter, and Ernie Terrell was a damn good heavyweight, as was Chuvalo and Ali made them look bad.

The big question is, what would happen if Ali didn’t get forced away from the fight game in 1967? Those three years away could have been another 9 title defenses for Ali, and how does NOT stepping away in his prime affect Ali into the early 70s?

After three years off, Ali came back by fighting Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena in two months. Those two were as good as almost anybody Louis ever defended his title against. Anybody here thinks James Braddock beats Quarry or Bonavena? Then he fights Joe Frazier, and Frazier fought the perfect fight to beat Ali and won a close decision. Ali would go on to win the next two fights against Frazier and then would go on to beat George Foreman to regain his title.

Towards the end of his career, Ali won a few questionable decisions, but he was far over the hill from the number of wars he had fought. So, just like I am not holding losing to Marciano, I will not hold the last handful of fights against Ali.

Styles make fights

If you compare the competition they fought, there is no doubt Ali’s competition was by far the greatest any heavyweight champion has ever fought, but styles make fights. Thomas Hearns destroyed Roberto Duran, but who had the better career? Joe Louis struggled and barely beat the slick light heavyweight champion of the world; Billy Conn. Ali struggled with awkward Ken Norton. Does either of those opponents indicate what happens when Ali and Louis meet in a mythical matchup?

I think Louis/Conn does help us to solve this puzzle. Conn was slick and fast, Ali was slicker and even faster, and Ali was much bigger than Conn. So when you match the styles up, I think it favors Ali to win a fight against Louis. Yes, I realize this is all speculation, and I could make a case and write an article on why Louis would beat Ali, but I think the preponderance of evidence points towards an Ali win.

So who was the GOAT?

Even though I think Ali beats Louis, that is not the only thing that goes into being the GOAT. I think the deciding factor is that Ali’s title reigns to me were against better competition than Louis. Louis’s best wins are against Conn, Farr, Godoy, Max Baer, Braddock, Schmeling, and Jersey Joe Walcott. Ali’s best wins were against Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Quarry, Bonavena, Terrell, Patterson, Norton, Shavers, and Spinks. So when you look at the level of competition, it’s not even close.

In the end, both are historical figures and beloved all over the world. There will never be another heavyweight like either one of them. Still, in the heavyweight division, Muhammad Ali is hands down the GOAT!

 

Read Also
The Real Story Behind Cinderella Man: James Braddock, Joe Gould, Max Baer, and the Shadows of the Fight Game
The 2005 film Cinderella Man, directed by Ron Howard and starring Russell ...
Top 10 Heavyweight Boxing Upsets of All Time: Which Upset was the Most Shocking?
What's more exciting than the heavyweight Champion of the World getting upset? ...
Bet365 Promo
The Nine Most underrated Heavyweight Boxers of All-Time
I love making these lists. I grew up in the 70s and ...
Esteban de Jesus, Roberto Duran y AIDS (1972-89)
Many of us dream of celebrity sports fame, but only cruel individuals ...
Some Assembly Required: The Story Behind Mego’s Muhammad Ali Action Figure
“Pretend you’re having a championship fight. Squeeze the trigger to make them ...
Superman vs. Muhammad Ali: How the Heavyweight Champ and the Man of Steel Saved the World in 1978
Training The Mego toy corporation, arguably best known for its line of ...
Indiana Basketball Weekly
Welcome to Indiana Basketball Weekly, your dedicated podcast for all things Indiana ...
Top 10 Biggest Boxing Matches of All-Time
10. Floyd Mayweather - Manny Pacquiao: Still a tremendous and highly anticipated ...
What if Gene Tunney Did Not Retire Post-Dempsey?
Former Heavyweight Champion Gene Tunney did like his successor Rocky Marciano: he ...
Looking Back: George Foreman vs. Muhammad Ali
Forty-seven years ago, many said the fight between undisputed heavyweight champion of ...
Top Betting Sites
Top Betting Bonuses
BetMGM
4.9/5
Bet365
4.8/5
Caesars
4.7/5
FanDuel
4.6/5
DraftKings
DraftKings
DraftKings Review
4.6/5
Fanatics
Fanatics
Fanatics Review
4.5/5
Barstool
Barstool Review
3.7/5
Bally Bet
Bally Bet Review
3.7/5
BetMGM
BetMGM Promo
Up To $1500 in Bonus Bets Paid Back if your First Bet Does Not Win
T&Cs apply
4.9/5
Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER (Available in the US) Call 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY) Call 1-800-327-5050 (MA) 21+ only. Please Gamble Responsibly. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP (AZ), 1-800-BETS-OFF (IA), 1-800-981-0023 (PR). Rewards are non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire in 7 days. In partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. See BetMGM.com for Terms. US promotional offers not available in DC, Mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico.
Bet365
Bet365 Promo
Bet $5 & Get $200 in bonus bets
T&Cs apply
4.8/5
Minimum $10 deposit required. Minimum odds -500 of greater. Bonus Bets wager excluded from returns. New customers only. T&CS, time limits and exclusions apply. This Referral Code is used for marketing/tracking purposes only. $10 minimum deposit. Paid in Bonus Bets. Bonus Bets wager excluded from returns. New customers only. Available in app only. Max. prize, game restrictions, time limits and T&Cs apply. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL OR TEXT 1-800-GAMBLER (AZ/CO/IL/IN/KS/KY/LA/MD/NC/NJ/OH/PA/TN/VA) or 1-800-BETS OFF (IA). 21+ (18+ KY). Must be present in AZ/CO/IA/IL/IN/KS/KY/LA (select parishes)/MD/NC/NJ/OH/PA/TN/VA.
Caesars
Caesars Promo
Bet $1, Double your Winnings on your Next 20 Wagers. Up to $25 Max Bet Per Boost
T&Cs apply
4.7/5
21+ New users only. Must register using eligible promo code. First bet after registration must qualify. Max. Bonus Bet: $1,000. Bonus Bet expires 14 days after receipt. Void where prohibited. See Caesars.com/promos for full terms. Gambling Problem? 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537)
FanDuel
FanDuel Promo
Bet $5 Get $150 in Bonus Bets If Your Bet Wins!
T&Cs apply
4.6/5
Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit RG Help . Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit Helpline and Chat - CONNECTICUT COUNCIL (CT). Hope is here. Home or call (800) 327-5050 for 24/7 support (MA). Visit Home (MD). Call 1-877-8HOPE-NY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY). 21+ (18+ D.C.) and present in select states (for KS, in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino). First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets which expire 7 days after receipt. See terms at FanDuel Sportsbook
DraftKings
DraftKings Promo
New Customers: Bet $5+ Get $300 in Bonus Bets If Your Bet Wins + 3 Months of League Pass On Us!
T&Cs apply
4.6/5
Fanatics
Fanatics Promo
Bet $50, Get $250 in FanCash
T&Cs apply
4.5/5
New customers in AZ, CO, CT, DC, IA, IL, IN, KS, KY, LA, MA, MD, MI, NC, NJ, NY, OH, PA, TV, VA, VT, WV, WY. Must opt-in and wager $10+ cash on any market with odds of -500 or longer to receive $50 in FanCash each day for your first 5 days (issued when qualifying wager settles). Your 5 days begin the day you establish your account. See full Promo Terms and FanCash terms in the Fanatics Sportsbook app.
Barstool Promo
T&Cs apply
3.7/5
Latest Sport News
Failing Your Way Upwards: King Ry and the WBC
With divine grace and profound wisdom, the World Boxing Council have rescinded ...
Game Day Showdown: Kansas vs. North Carolina Preview
Get ready for a college basketball classic! This ...
“Rocky Balboa” like Billy Backus upsets future Hall of Famer
It took Jose Napoles 64 fights to get ...
The Dark History of the Cincinnati Bengals and the Brown Family
The Cincinnati Bengals are a franchise defined as ...
George Chuvalo: A Heavyweight’s Triumphs and Tragedies
George Chuvalo’s life story reads like a boxing ...
What Did Vikings Quarterback J.J. McCarthy Actually Prove?
Quarterback J.J. McCarthy walked into Detroit with something ...
Cleveland Browns Week 10: Losing to Win 
The Week 9 Bye went by awfully fast. ...
NFL Power Rankings Week 10
We've reached the midway point of the season, ...
Boxing: The Slow Death of a Once-Majestic Mainstream Sport
For nearly a century, boxing stood shoulder to ...
Our Team
Mike GoodpasterMark LewisAuthor IconJohn RaspantiSamuel Teets
+4
Mike Goodpaster
Mike Goodpaster
Chief Editor
Mark Lewis
Mark Lewis
Editor
Author Icon
Christopher Carlson
Author
John Raspanti
John Raspanti
Author
Samuel Teets
Samuel Teets
US Sports Veteran
Daniel Kornhauser
Daniel Kornhauser
Author
Chris Benedict
Chris Benedict
Editor
Ellis Williams
Ellis Williams
Author
Shelley Harcar
Shelley Harcar
Sports Writer
Find out what the legends have to say about sports this week....
Find out what the legends have to say about sports this week....

21+ and present in VA. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER.

This site is using Cloudflare and adheres to the Google Safe Browsing Program. We adapted Google's Privacy Guidelines to keep your data safe at all times.
Virginia Town HallCloudflareSSL
Close
Our Sports Pros recommend these awesome sports betting sites this week:
BetMGM
BetMGM Promo
Up To $1500 in Bonus Bets Paid Back if your First Bet Does Not Win
Our Favorite
T&Cs and 21+ apply
Code:
Open BetMGM
Get Bonus
Bet365
Bet365 Promo
Bet $5 & Get $200 in bonus bets
Best Slots
T&Cs and 21+ apply
Code:
Open Bet365
Open Bet365
Caesars
Caesars Promo
Bet $1, Double your Winnings on your Next 20 Wagers. Up to $25 Max Bet Per Boost
Newcomer
T&Cs and 21+ apply
Code:
Open Caesars
Get Bonus
×
Your Promo Code:
The bonus offer of was already opened in an additional window. If not, you can open it also by clicking the following link:
Play now